The Clam Rampant

3 Responses to “Question for readersI know many of you are crack…”

1. # bill bannonon 03 Aug 2007 at 9:42 am

   The Old Testament permitted slavery to the Jews who had to release said slaves on the 7th year. To make that equivalent to the slavery that was permanent and took place in more modern times wherein marriage was at times disallowed and children were sold away from their parents (even by religious orders per Noonan’s “The Church that Can and Cannot Change”)…to make them equivalent may be stretching things beyond meaning.

   In the New Testament, Paul says, “slaves be true to your masters”…he is not endorsing slavery as it existed in the Roman Empire but is directing Christians how to deal with it…rebellion or obedience….he chooses obedience since there was no possibility of success of a rebellion against the Roman Empire and possibility of success is a requirement of a just war.

   The Catholic Church was involved in slavery despite the internet apologetics essays that make us look innocent on the matter. The Church approved just titled slavery which worked against any blacks who were born to slave mothers despite all the papal bulls which seem to be against slavery and Relgious orders and Bishops had slaves into the 19th century due to Rome alligning itself with Roman law tradition which endorsed slavery as the result of war or of birth to a slave. Cardinal Juan de Lugo in his moral theology tomes in the 16th century and St. Alphonsus in his books in the 17th supported slavery of that nature and if you look on line at the Trent catechism 1566AD, it supports it in the section on manstealing within the 7th commandment despite there being a papal bull in 1537AD seemingly against slavery.
   The bulls were really against new slavery and the brutal trade but were not against just titled slavery based on left over Roman law tradition. England had Common Law and was thus able to correct about slavery before Catholicism was. This is one reason that even Vatican figures should stop with the canard that God always guides the Church in morals….God does if the Church puts out the work to do an infallible document like the Council of Trent against divorce. But God does not guarantee moral theology that does not put in the work to do an infallible document. In most areas of morals, the Bible has already spoken so that Rome can easily be correct on the topic of bank robbing….so can Joe Schmoe be correct there with no help from Rome. But in more complicated things, Rome must work and Rome does not always work hard and so we were incorrect on slavery due to being born to a slave until recent times since in 1960, the 5th edition of Tommaso Iorio’s Theologia Moralis still supported slavery for the just titled reasons. Vatican II and John Paul II attacked all slavery really. But the Quakers did that 3 centuries ago.

2. # Michael (ArchAngel's Advocate) Richeron 09 Aug 2007 at 10:10 pm

   A response that I find more helpful is to remind the questioner that Scripture, while the inspired Word of God, is
   also a compilation of documents reflective of the human societies in which they were written and editted. Catholicism
   has always understood this human coloring of the Message, and modern Scriptual teaching calls us to understand a
   biblical passage in the enviroment in which it was written.
   My personal observation is that there are two levels of Catholic teaching, the doctrinal:unchanging, infallible, and
   usually black & white; and the pastoral: how to apply the doctrinal in the society that the Church finds itself in the moment,
   variable, shades of grey, situational, subject to error (or at least not entirely in line with the Teaching). While slavery was a
   big no-no from a doctrinal perspective, the Church had to recognize that society would crumble if it were suddenly vanish.
   Slave as well as slave owner would suffer (as evidenced by many slaves after the American Civil War). A truly Christian
   development would have been to educate the slave to be able to function in a free society (my understanding is that was
   what the Quakers did in Pennsylvania) while treating the slave as a brother in Christ (a la St. Paul’s Letter to Philemon.
   Many are answering to Christ right now for not following St. Paul’s admonitions. Also, if the slave class becomes more actualized
   the need and the profitabilty of slavery decreases, as the North (and in Canada) showed in that same war.

3. # Marc Aupiaison 23 Dec 2007 at 2:54 pm

   Slavery, paligamy, trinity, many other things we believe indirectly (P.S. trinity is proven). We believe it based on scriptural concepts, and on the interpretations of the Fathers- who wrote before we had a compiled bible. This proves the need for the church Marc

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