Comments on: O Canada…where pot’s a sacrament…

By: Bear-i-tone

Bear-i-tone — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:33:58 +0000

This is going to be a tough one. Short of creating a state religion, it is nearly impossible for legislators to say what constitutes a valid religious practice and what doesn’t. If they do start to legislate religious practices, I shudder where that will lead. Further, The Supreme Court of Canada has repeatedly- in decisions regarding same sex marriage, legalisation of marijuana, and abortion to name three- shown a complete inability to maintain distinctions handed down to us by hundreds of years of precedent and common law. In short, any time a case goes to them for a decision, I cringe and expect the worst. They have yet to disappoint me.

By: Michael (ArchAngel's Advocate) Richer

Michael (ArchAngel's Advocate) Richer — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:33:46 +0000

the bishop can grant a dispensation.
My former parish in San Francisco had a great custom. When it came time for Communion it was explained to the non-Catholics in the congregation why we didn’t allow non-Catholics to receive. Instead, they were invited to come forward and receive a blessing from any Eucharistic Minister (we lay folk were instrucyrd NOT to do a Benediction, a rite reserved to priests). It was popular, and a humbling experience for us lay folk.

By: Michael (ArchAngel's Advocate) Richer

Michael (ArchAngel's Advocate) Richer — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:27:08 +0000

To add to the sharing of the info:
Theere is a difference between valid and licit. In the Roman Rite it is not licit to use leavened bread (wheat flour and water only!) while while the Eastern Rite Churches have a valid Consecration using leaven bread. We Latins can’t use any wine which is not naturally fermented grape juice (which drives me bonkers beacuse I love Cream Sherry and Berry Wines). Also, a bishop can grant a priest a dispensation to use natural grape juice, which is commonly done if a priest is an alcoholic “in recovery”.
As a “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion” I’ve been in the position of Fr. John. Fortunately we learned that we could ask members of the community to help in the consumption of the remaining Precious Blood.
The pastoral considerations for mixed marriages are also numerous. For example, is the non-Catholic spouse -to-be Baptised? If so, is he/she in the RCIA process to become one of the family

By: Sara

Sara — Fri, 24 Aug 2007 00:09:22 +0000

I’m pretty sure that Fr. Schnippel is correct about the exception for sacramental wine. I believe the exception also extended to “medicinal” alcohol. I wonder if there was a rise in church attendance as a result?

It also gave rise to the use of Welch’s grape juice in some protestant churches. As anyone who grew up in the Campbellite Churches of Christ can tell you–if it ain’t Welch’s then it ain’t the rruit of the vine.

Interesting, there has arisen a theory among some (I know for sure there are Campbellites who subscribe to it) that the wine mentioned in the bible wasn’t “wine” as we know it in that it wasn’t fermented.

The same tactic of attempting to get a religious exemption has been tried in the US regarding the religious use of Peyote. As far as I know it hasn’t been allowed–but Constitutional Law was sooo last semester

By: Kasia

Kasia — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:45:05 +0000

Ooh, very interesting. Thank you for the information! So many things we lay people just don’t know or appreciate. I’ll bet mixed marriages and convert marriages give rise to a lot of situations like the one you’re describing; if I got married tomorrow, I’d probably have 100-150 guests and probably fewer than 50 would be Catholic.

Of course, even if every priest has a situation like Fr. John’s, it’s still not the intended purpose of the Sacrament, but rather a secondary or tertiary effect. I still think these guys are stoner clowns trying to pass off their vices as religious obligations…they also advocate nudism…

By: Father Schnippel

Father Schnippel — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:03:05 +0000

(Side question: does anyone know whether Catholic and Orthodox churches were permitted to use wine in their liturgies during Prohibition? I suppose it’s possible that there was an exemption for religious celebrations, considering how few people actually consumed any of the Precious Blood during the Tridentine Mass. However, considering that Prohibition ended shortly after Al Smith got spanked in the Presidential race for being a Catholic, I kind of doubt it.)

Kasia, yes there was an exception for ‘Church Wine” during prohibition, and in fact it had to be specifically labeled as “Altar Wine” and was, I think, sold through church supply stores, which is where most parishes still get their wine for Mass.

Also, for Mass to be valid that priest must consecrate both bread and wine into the Body and Blood, in fact he is also to receive both as well. So that, as happened this week here in Cinci, a priest could not celebrate early morning Mass because he had to fast for a blood test. (I was supposed to cover for him and overslept! DOH!)

And nearly every priest has been in a situation similar to Fr. John’s, you hope the ushers have enough sense to pull back on the amount brought forward, but even that isn’t fool proof. I had a full church for a wedding at one point (300 folks), and I think less than 40 people actually received communion!