On Michael Savage’s comments
Kasia July 23rd, 2008
Courtesy of Kit Brookside, here is a story about Michael Savage’s comments about autism and autistic kids.
I suggest watching the video on there – one of the anchors, Jim Watkins, has an autistic son. You can read his follow-ups on his work blog here, here and here.
I especially suggest listening to the video on the second Watkins link. Savage does emphasize that he thinks he was taken out of context, and that the “99%” he was talking about was 99% of diagnosed autism cases, not of “truly autistic” kids. However, Savage repeatedly refuses to respond to questions posed to him by the interviewer, Peter Thorne, many of which are eminently reasonable, and eventually hangs up on the interview.
It seems to me, from my very limited exposure to him, that Savage is not the kind of guy you can have a fruitful debate with. By “fruitful” I don’t mean that either one of you actually changes your mind, incidentally; I mean that you are able to actually talk TO the other person rather than AT him, and that there is some reasonable effort on both sides to at least attempt to engage the other person’s points.
Is autism overdiagnosed? I don’t know. But the thing is, Savage repeatedly refuses to give anything more than what is, essentially, anecdotal and circumstantial evidence to support his claim that it is. (Amusingly, he refuses to say what makes him an authority about this because the interviewer is not an authority on it. So if you are interviewed by a journalist, he or she has to have an advanced degree in the subject you’re speaking about? That’s a new one…)
There is a corollary to freedom of speech, you know. There’s a corollary to just about every freedom we have. Rights don’t exist in a vacuum.
The corollary here is that you can say what you want (within the limits of the law, which are pretty broad), but you are responsible for what you say; and sometimes what you say can have unintended consequences, for which you may be responsible. Sort of like how, in the Laura Ingalls Wilder book The Long Winter, Pa Ingalls points out to a greedy shopkeeper that, despite his legal right to do so, his charging as much as he can get away with for wheat that the townspeople need to keep from starving is going to end up driving him out of business come spring, when people once again have a choice of where to shop. It’s not a threat. It’s a statement of how the market works.
Kit suggests that we consider not supporting his sponsors. This blogger (Greg Reich) actually listened to Savage’s show with the explicit intention of collecting a list of sponsors, which he lists on his blog, and stated his intention to continue doing so indefinitely.
However, I don’t actually patronize any of the sponsors, except occasionally Home Depot (and I prefer Lowe’s anyway), so my boycotting won’t do much good. And I somehow don’t see him getting canned, not with ten million listeners. Again, the market at work.
If you’re of a mind to, by all means boycott his sponsors, and be sure to send them a letter explaining that you are doing so and why. Since I already don’t patronize them, I will do the only things I can do to a guy like Savage:
I won’t listen to him. And I’ll keep doing my little bit to try to keep my debates civil and reasoned.
** UPDATE ** Please note the comment in the combox by Sarah from Home Depot Communications. Home Depot disputes any advertising with or sponsorship of Michael Savage.
You don’t need to convince me to boycott his sponsors. And out of respect for your willingness to host this blog (and the fact that I’m working really, really hard at taming my tongue, which according to St. James is a restless evil, full of deadly poison), I won’t lower the discourse by posting what I really think about Mr. Savage.
Here’s the worst of his remarks: You know what autism is? I’ll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it’s a brat who hasn’t been told to cut the act out. That’s what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they’re silent? They don’t have a father around to tell them, “Don’t act like a moron. You’ll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don’t sit there crying and screaming, idiot.”
So it’s my fault, and Mrs. DJ’s fault, that we have two children with autistic spectrum disorders. Of course, that doesn’t explain how we have two other children without said disorders, even though all 4 of our children have been raised in the same household with the same parenting standards.
This is just as damaging as the old lie about “Refrigerator Mothers” whose supposedly cold demeanors were to blame for the anti-social component of their children’s autistic behaviors.
I respect his right to free speech, but I hope enough people boycott his sponsors that it becomes less attractive for them to financially support his bile.
DJ,
I can make a guess as to what you’d like to say about Savage, and I don’t blame you one bit. I had to make a concerted effort not to say something much the same.
I’m trying to be as fair as I possibly can, and assume – which may or may not be reasonable – that Savage really meant what he claims he meant, which was that 99% of the diagnosed cases are not really autism. Based on that, I would assume (again, maybe not reasonably) that he would say that J., at least, is “really autistic”. I don’t know what he’d say about L. and her Aspergers.
Honestly, I do hope that people boycott him and his sponsors, because even giving him a boatload of benefit of the doubt, what he’s said is really offensive to a lot of people. And not just autistic kids and their parents, either – also the doctors who he seems to think are misdiagnosing this, and who he seems to think are infiltrated by dishonest quacks who diagnose autism to bilk money out of people. But what disturbs me even more about this is that we seem to have more and more Savage-type commentators, whether on the left or the right, and I’m concerned about what that means for our national public discourse. Like I said, he’s not someone you can have a meaningful debate with.
To clarify – The Home Depot does not currently advertise on The Michael Savage Show, nor do we have any kind of sponsorship in place with the program. Again, we do not advertise with this program and any suggestion of such support is false.
Sarah, Home Depot Communications
Oy…Michael Savage. Sometimes he’s right, but most of the time he’s whacked-out extreme and assumes the worst about everyone and everything. I don’t think he’s met a conspiracy theory he doesn’t like.
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First off, 74.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot. To say his “99%” was just an exaggeration is way too generous. I don’t doubt there are some misdiagnoses, but not to the degree he claims, nor for the reasons he claims. Doctors (no matter how much some of them may think they’re God) make mistakes at times. But if the misdiagnoses of autism is above 5%, I’d be shocked…even given the fact that there’s no blood test for autism, and that’s it’s a judgement call on the doctor’s part.
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Second, Savage doesn’t know why doctors make the diagnoses they do. Like I said above, Savage assumes the worst about the doctors, that they do it for money and kickbacks and whatever.
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Third, whether he likes it or not, whether his statement was taken out of context or not, he’s still responsible for the damage done to the autistic community (i.e., family and friends of autistics as well as those with autism themselves).
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I will agree with Savage about a couple of things in all of this, though. I do believe there is a tendency in the medical community to be quick to label kids, and there is a definite tendency in the US to be extremely quick to look to prescription drugs as the solution to the problem (for adults as well as children). Heartburn? Take a pill. Bowel issues of any type? Take a pill. Aching from exercise or work? Take a pill. Tired? Take a pill. Can’t sleep? Take a pill. Don’t want a hangover? Take a pill. Can’t focus? Take a pill. Obsessive? Take a pill. Lost your hair? Take a pill. Too much hair? Take a pill. Prescription Medicine is Doctor’s (God’s) gift to Man, and the solution to all problems.
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I don’t blame the doctors, other than in that they write the scripts. It’s the people who ask for the medicine, and switch doctors if necessary to get the script. Or the diagnosis.
Don’t say he can’t get fired – it happened to Don Imus.
Wow, DJ, I was sure you would be thrilled – it’s just that easy! Just tell those kids to straighten up and fly right! See? Problem solved! (Now, MY question is, once you get them to clean up their act, can they still count cards in Vegas, or do you lose the money making aspect of autism?)
TBS
I do believe there is a tendency in the medical community to be quick to label kids, and there is a definite tendency in the US to be extremely quick to look to prescription drugs as the solution to the problem
I’ve seen this repeated all over the place, and in my experience and that of the people in the autism groups with which I’m most familiar, it’s exactly the opposite. Doctors are often unwilling to diagnose children with autism because it’s a difficult condition to treat. There are no medications specifically for the treatment of autism (though some of the manifestations of the condition can be treated with medication, including the treatment of depression and anxiety with SSRIs). Pediatricians and family practitioners have very little to offer in support of families dealing with this condition (with the exception of a relative handful of doctors who treat in accordance with the DAN protocol, and they often subsidize their patients through foundational grants or charitable contributions), as most of the treatment plan is handled by psychologists and even paraprofessionals.
Medical insurance companies refuse to pay for behavioral modification therapies, stating that it is the responsibility of the public school system to handle it. Public schools, on the other hand, are reluctant to certify that children qualify for special services under the ASD label because these children are astronomically expensive to educate (I’ve seen estimates that it costs in excess of $35,000 per child, depending on the school district and quality of services offered). In fact, our local district actively encouraged us to homeschool our 2nd-oldest, who is affected by Asperger syndrome. So parents are often stuck in a no-man’s land until they find a practitioner who will simply offer the diagnosis that’s already become obvious to them through their diligent personal research.
To be sure, there are real shysters in the autism treatment community, and they should be labeled as such by everyone. They prey on those looking for slivers of hope in the midst of a rather grim diagnosis, and have suckered lots of well-meaning parents into deep piles of debt (believe me, I’m still paying for a course of therapy my son underwent in 2003, and another that took place in 2004. I’d be devastated without my relatively well-paying job).
So the problem isn’t even close to over-diagnosis. It’s under-diagnosis (until pushed by heroic parents who stop at nothing to get the appropriate services for their children) and lack of support from the medical and educational communities following the diagnosis.
Wow, DJ, I was sure you would be thrilled – it’s just that easy! Just tell those kids to straighten up and fly right! See? Problem solved!
*slaps forehead* If only I’d thought of that before I spent in excess of $40,000 in 2003 alone in treating this condition! I’d better get to work straightaway!
(Now, MY question is, once you get them to clean up their act, can they still count cards in Vegas, or do you lose the money making aspect of autism?)
You ought to be thankful I know you well enough to notice the good nature of this, or I’d be all over you right about now!
Oy…Michael Savage. Sometimes he’s right, but most of the time he’s whacked-out extreme and assumes the worst about everyone and everything.
I dunno… I’ve never been able to tolerate listening to him long enough to find out whether he’s right or wrong about anything. His approach pretty much destroys any correct argument he’s put forth. He simply doesn’t deserve the dignity of having me (or anyone else for that matter) in his audience. And that goes for pretty much every other political talking head, regardless of political ideology. I wish the entire lot of ‘em would just shut up for a change.
I don’t know Michael Savage from a hole in the ground, but I imagine he got the idea from a recent column by Thomas Sowell. Mr. Sowell wrote about late-talking children who were misdiagnosed as autistic. But he isn’t a (insert strong language) like this Savage fellow. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071608.php3
I’m glad to hear about Home Depot, because I wouldn’t be able to boycott their store in Port Huron. Their customer service rocks.
Thanks for taking this one on, Kasia. I’m surprised that the networks haven’t jumped all over this – I guess throwing hate at disabled kids isn’t as bad as making nasty comments about race or religion.
On a slightly related note, my 10 y/o Aspie had orientation for middle school (6-7-8). She, being socially challenged and terrified of unknown places, new routines, etc., came home and said it went well, and she wasn’t as scared as she thought she would be. “Mom, I’ve made a decision. I’m not gonna be such a clam next year. Y’know, how I’m shy, and when there’s a bunch of new people I get all clammish? Well, I’m really gonna work on that and be more outgoing.”
Hee! “Clammish” – I thought of you and cracked up – she knows nothing about my blogging buddies!
Jean – I didn’t know Savage from a hole in the ground until this blew up, which is why I’m trying to be as fair and circumspect as possible.
Kit – that is AWESOME!!!
And re: being clammish, I have to admit, when I first heard about Aspergers I half wondered if I would’ve been diagnosed with it as a kid. But since I’ve largely grown out of it, I’m guessing my issues were less neurological than a combination of a very awkwardly shy nature, an unstable home life, and very little positive formation/guidance in developing social skills…
Kasia, is there anyone who’d characterize my sweet little Aspie as a clam?
LOL – no, DJ, but in looking at Web MD, I see a couple of symptoms that I did have…
Be unable to recognize subtle differences in speech tone, pitch, and accent that alter the meaning of others’ speech. Thus, your child may not understand a joke or may take a sarcastic comment literally. Likewise, his or her speech may be flat and difficult to understand because it lacks tone, pitch, and accent.
Have a formal style of speaking that is advanced for his or her age. For example, the child may use the term “beckon” instead of “call,” or “return” instead of “come back.”
Particularly the second one…
And it mentions delayed motor development…I was eight before I rode a bike without training wheels, but as far as I know the rest of my motor development was normal.
So like I said – I doubt I actually had/have Aspergers, but I was a very odd child.
DJ,
Please don’t think I was trying to downplay autism diagnoses…I have no idea what it’s like to have a child with autism, and don’t know (in any way) what you’ve gone through. There absolutely are children with autism, and they definitely need help and support, not a wild claim that 99% of them just need to be told to sit down and shut up.
With a behavioral malady that can’t be diagnosed through something like bloodwork or a genetic test, it’s much harder to determine the “right” diagnosis. Some who have a such a condition go undiagnosed, and some who don’t have it are incorrectly diagnosed. For something like autism, I think the biggest reason there’s a jump in the number of people diagnosed is because of two things: 1) more doctors are recognizing the signs (although it’s probably still not even close to enough), and b) the definition has been modified as more and more is learned about the disorder.
There are other diagnoses that, in the past, seemed to be overdone. For example, I find it hard to accept that 7.8% of US children in 2003 had ADD/ADHD, or that 14.9% of 16-year-old boys had ADD/ADHD (see here), or that 4.3% of all US children need to be on drugs to manage ADD/ADHD.
When the diagnosis is based on “often” doing certain things, that’s when it becomes a judgment call instead of science. Add on the fact that many families now only have one child (and thus, no basis for comparison on the part of the parents), and I hope you can understand my skepticism regarding the high level of diagnosis of this particular malady, and my concern about an increase in the diagnosis of other maladies. Overdiagnosis, or even the perception of overdiagnosis, hurts those who really have the disorder.
With some disorders, the solution is “Here, take this pill.” Instead of finding the real cause of the problem (diet, physical activity, other underlying medical problems, whatever), the symptoms get treated, but not the root cause.
And, just as a disclaimer, I want to assert that, yes, there really are kids (and adults) with ADD/ADHD, and I’m glad there’s medication to help. What I don’t like is this near insistence on labeling everyone and everything with a medical condition and the drugging of the nation.
BTW, I don’t make it a habit to listen to Savage, I just happen to catch him sometimes when I’m driving at night. This week, I’ve been working on what will be our new house, and that means driving after the kids are all in bed.
Kit said: “I guess throwing hate at disabled kids isn’t as bad as making nasty comments about race or religion.”
Ok, I gotta tell it. I gotta.
So at The Clam’s birthday party a few years ago, I told an ethnic joke. (It was a Polack joke. Note: since The Clam and I are sisters, we are exactly the same percentage Polish. I hardly ever “tell jokes” – mostly because I can’t remember them, and I don’t tell ethnic jokes, unless I am a member of the ethnic group being joked about. Which in this case I AM. Back to the story.)
I told it. Everyone laughed. Except Clammy, who got quite offended (see above comment about us both being equally Polish. Plus I’m older, so I’ve been Polish longer than she has.)
Anyway, Momster, in a misguided attempt to diffuse the situation (because it had escalated into a situation) said, “When I was a child, we were taught that it was very rude to tell ethnic jokes.”
So I said, “Well, what kind of jokes did you tell?”
And she said… wait for it…
“Retard jokes and dead baby jokes.”
Yeah. That was my reaction too.
TBS
ROFL. I had forgotten that…that was quite a few years ago! I think that was even pre-Canuck!
And to think, only today I made a wise crack about your blind former landlady. I’m not sure we can really call this progress, as that implies something positive…
TBS – LMAO!!!
My Jewish pals proudly admit that they tell the best Jewish jokes…and they are right!
In spite of Home Depot’s claim that they do not advertise on Michael Savage’s show, they have found that they had some cleanup to do, because their advertisements were airing on various stations in at least the New York and Detroit markets. I have my exchange with Home Depot on my blog.
Several advertisers have claimed that they do not advertise on Savage’s show, but my list of advertisers comes only from what I and volunteers in other markets have actually heard on the air.
Several sources were pulling an old list of advertisers for the cancelled MSNBC show, Savage Nation, which is what prompted me to listen to the show to gather an accurate and comprehensive list.
I cannot stand the show. I am looking at it as me listening so others don’t have to. His spin has been absolutely disgusting–he has made himself out to be some sort of hero to defenseless children, when the original context of his attack was in reference to funding he would not support in regard to disease treatment in the United States. It had nothing to do with drug companies or the medical profession. He began with talking about a $48 billion bill to fight AIDS in Africa, which he opposes. He went on to say that he would rather see cancer and diabetes treated in America–but then he went on to make clear that autism is an example of something he would not fund.
He’s also telling his listeners that he was misquoted by Media Matters, when the reality is that it’s his audio, and the only possible context that would make it a misquote would be if it were preceded by “I would be absolutely crazy to say…”
Either the advertisers will pull their support and Savage will no longer have a radio show, or he will maintain enough financial support to stay. Either way, I’m not stopping my contacting of his advertisers until they either leave him or respond to me.